Posts by Doug Mason

10

Inconsistency involving Lot and Abraham

by Ireneus in

when god informed of his intention of destroying the wicked inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah abraham made extensive questioning, cross-questioning and bargaining with god till he gets satisfied.

(genesis 18:16-33) however, when god informed of his intention of murdering abraham’s own only-begotten, innocent son, he simply obeys without any questionings [which he should naturally have done more intensely than he did in the case of unrelated wicked people].. god too acted strangely!

no introduction of the subject with sufficient reasons.

Doug Mason

Ireneus,

Many suggest that Abraham actually killed his son: "you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son" (v 16); "you have obeyed me" (v 18).

I would like you to dissect the passage further. The WTS says that LORD should be rendered as "Jehovah". In the following I will use the term "Yahweh". But I want to go further than they do.

The early Patriarchs did not use the name "Yahweh". rather they used the name of "EL". (Hence "IsraEL"). We see forms such as "El-Shaddai", and so on. (The God EL was Israel's first main God and we encounter him and his pantheon of Gods in Genesis chapter 1. Yahweh does not appear in Genesis 1.)

Read that chapter 22 again, this time substituting EL for whenever you see "God" and "Yahweh" whenever you see "LORD".

Abraham was terrified because this was the first time he had encountered the deity named Yahweh. He had been following the instructions from EL (="God").

Interestingly, the Mount is named "Moriah", which is a Yahwist word ("Mori-Yah"). It is not named after the God EL ("Mori-El").

Doug

9

Eden's snake

by Doug Mason in

in my study into the israelite and judahite salvations, i provided sources which tell us that the writers of the creation story at genesis 2 and 3 employed symbols associated with the goddess asherah, namely: eve, snake, and tree.. at present, i am researching satan and i came across the following from “the birth of satan” by t.j. wray and gregory mobley (pages 68-69 70).

doug.

even casual readers of the bible have heard about the story of the garden of eden (genesis 2-3).

Doug Mason

Venus,

When the Bible writers speak of "all the nations of the world" they meant the nations around the Mediterranean.

Do not impose 21st century thinking onto the culture of a different people living centuries and millennia ago.

A quick look at Google images for "Hebrew cosmology" shows that they thought the world was a flat disc.

Doug

9

Eden's snake

by Doug Mason in

in my study into the israelite and judahite salvations, i provided sources which tell us that the writers of the creation story at genesis 2 and 3 employed symbols associated with the goddess asherah, namely: eve, snake, and tree.. at present, i am researching satan and i came across the following from “the birth of satan” by t.j. wray and gregory mobley (pages 68-69 70).

doug.

even casual readers of the bible have heard about the story of the garden of eden (genesis 2-3).

Doug Mason

Venus,

Goddess Asherah is at times shown with a snake. At times she is symbolised as a tree. Of the 40 times she is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, it is often as a tree or a wooden pole that was erected to her, even in Solomon's Temple.

The writers of that myth were intent on destroying the worship of the Goddess Asherah by the Israelites and Judahites, so they used those symbols of a deceiving woman, a snake, and tree for that purpose. Adam (actually Israel and Judah) were being deceived by Asherah ("Eve") and by the wisdom of Snake and the Tree that promised life -- eternal life. And when they ate of the tree they did become like the gods.

The writers, who lived around the 6th century BCE, were intent on introducing their monotheism and to destroy all the other Gods and Goddesses, such as Asherah and her son Ba'al. (EL fared a little better by being assimilated into Yahweh.)

These were the only people capable of writing and reading, so all we read is their propaganda. The situation of the Babylonian Captivity enabled their minority monotheistic opinions to prevail.

Quite ironically, the later Jews reintroduced a tree that is reminiscent of Asherah's tree, in the form of the Menorah.

The story is a contrived religious myth. Nothing in the Bible may be construed to be literal history in terms that we would understand. Seek the religious motive of the writers and of the editors as they endeavoured to influence their own immediate community.

They were not writing to us.

Doug

9

Eden's snake

by Doug Mason in

in my study into the israelite and judahite salvations, i provided sources which tell us that the writers of the creation story at genesis 2 and 3 employed symbols associated with the goddess asherah, namely: eve, snake, and tree.. at present, i am researching satan and i came across the following from “the birth of satan” by t.j. wray and gregory mobley (pages 68-69 70).

doug.

even casual readers of the bible have heard about the story of the garden of eden (genesis 2-3).

Doug Mason

In my Study into the Israelite and Judahite salvations, I provided sources which tell us that the writers of the Creation story at Genesis 2 and 3 employed symbols associated with the Goddess Asherah, namely: Eve, Snake, and Tree.

At present, I am researching Satan and I came across the following from “The Birth of Satan” by T.J. Wray and Gregory Mobley (pages 68-69 70)

Doug

===============

Even casual readers of the Bible have heard about the story of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2-3). …

Many casual readers of the Bible assume two things about this story: that the fruit that Eve took a bite from was an apple and that the serpent who enticed Eve to disobey the divine commandment was the Devil. Neither assumption has any basis in the Hebrew Bible. Both represent later—centuries later—interpretations. …

The identification of the serpent in Genesis 3 with the Devil, although without any foundation in the original story, emerged in the final centuries before the common era. … It was during the Intertestamental Period, between 200 B.C.E. and 200 C.E., that the Devil in all his macabre glory appears in Jewish and Christian literature. The account in Genesis 3 about the serpent in Eden, written in the Iron Age (anywhere from 300 to 700 years before the Intertestamental Period) assumes that the serpent was one of the wild animals and that the serpent was ultimately subservient to the LORD God, since God made it:

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the LORD God had made. (Gen 3:1)

Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is there any identification made between the serpent and the Devil/Satan; furthermore, the Hebrew Bible does not invest snakes, as a species, with any special qualities of evil. The appearance of the serpent, as opposed to some other animal, in the role of tempter in the Garden of Eden story is probably influenced by creation stories from other cultures.

----------------

But in Jewish and Christian literature of the Intertestamental Period, the serpent did come to be identified with Satan. For instance, in the Life of Adam and Eve, a rewritten account of the Adam and Eve story from the first century C.E., Eve declares, “The devil answered me through the mouth of the serpent” (Life of Adam and Eve 17:4).

In another work from the same general period, the Wisdom of Solomon, a scroll that is among the contents of the Apocrypha, the serpent is indirectly connected to the Devil: “Through the devil’s envy death entered the world” (Wisdom 2:24).

The most explicit statement of this identification of the serpent with Satan, an interpretation that has endured to this day, appears in the New Testament book of Revelation. As if to remove any doubts, the text of Rev 12:9 reads: “that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan,” and the text of Rev 20:2, “the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan.”

But this common interpretation of the Garden of Eden story, which associates the crafty serpent with the cunning Devil, is merely that, an interpretation.

In this study, we are moving through the Bible one text at a time, one era at a time, historically charting the development of the character Satan. According to that approach, we cannot say that Satan appears in Eden, any more than we can say that Eve offered Adam a bite from an apple. Both of these ideas appeared many centuries later, long after the scroll of Genesis was first committed to parchment.

25

History of Salvations: Israelites and Judahites

by Doug Mason in

my material on the history of judaeo-christian salvations became unwieldy, so i divided it into 3 parts.. i have completely rewritten part 1, dealing with the israelites and judahites.

http://www.jwstudies.com/revolutions_part_1__israelite_judahite_salvations.pdf .

the url links to parts 2 and 3 are provided on its page 3.. i provide the complete bibliography at the end of part 3.. doug.

Doug Mason

Phizzy,

Thank you.

If I am able to make others think, then I am more than satisfied. I do not demand agreement.

I am delighted to know that you are inspired to read sources such as I list. The full details are at the end of Part 3. They contain gems that I have not presented.

Several are available as Kindle versions. I have the free Kindle software on my computer and it does make life a little easier.

I am about to delve into the history of the development of Satan. A question that you or someone might be able to solve for me: I come to the Eve-Snake-Adam-Tree myth as an anti-Asherah polemic. In some depictions of Asherah, she is shown with a snake. Also, in ancient times, snakes were symbols of wisdom and because they shed their skin, some saw them as a symbol of rebirth.

So I can imagine that Snake in the Eden myth satisfied many symbolic meanings for the writers as they tried to discredit Asherah and other religious beliefs. (Did Adam represent Yahweh??)

With that background, I ask the question of myself: If my assumptions are correct, at what point was Snake associated with Satan? Or does that association indicate the role of Satan in their eyes? That is, as a tester working on Yahweh's behalf (like in Job, written about the same time)?

Doug

25

History of Salvations: Israelites and Judahites

by Doug Mason in

my material on the history of judaeo-christian salvations became unwieldy, so i divided it into 3 parts.. i have completely rewritten part 1, dealing with the israelites and judahites.

http://www.jwstudies.com/revolutions_part_1__israelite_judahite_salvations.pdf .

the url links to parts 2 and 3 are provided on its page 3.. i provide the complete bibliography at the end of part 3.. doug.

Doug Mason

Perry,

Offering to help someone is not an attack. I see health problems that i would dearly love to help him address, if he wants to.

Perry, you are fully entitled to your opinions and if they help you cope, then it is essential you maintain them.

Even if the tomb were empty, you will need to build a theoretical hypothesis on that, all the while selecting which of the multitude of explanations to accept. I am very familiar with the "Substitute Death" Theory, but it is not the only one. To me, the NT teaches that salvation depends on allegiance, on obedience, not on mental assent.

Doug

25

History of Salvations: Israelites and Judahites

by Doug Mason in

my material on the history of judaeo-christian salvations became unwieldy, so i divided it into 3 parts.. i have completely rewritten part 1, dealing with the israelites and judahites.

http://www.jwstudies.com/revolutions_part_1__israelite_judahite_salvations.pdf .

the url links to parts 2 and 3 are provided on its page 3.. i provide the complete bibliography at the end of part 3.. doug.

Doug Mason

Jaydee,

It has been pointed out to me that I should acknowledge my forebears and the gene pool I owe my debt to.

Although my religious experiences have only ever been as a Christian, my gene pool is pure Jewish. I have no experience, exposure, or practical knowledge of Judaism, yet I believe it is possible my ancestry plays its part.

I also know that my thinking is greatly aided by the 90 minute walk I undertake each day, and I highly recommend it -- not for weight loss but for physical well-being and for assisting in the mental process.

I created this post in my mind while out walking.

Doug

25

History of Salvations: Israelites and Judahites

by Doug Mason in

my material on the history of judaeo-christian salvations became unwieldy, so i divided it into 3 parts.. i have completely rewritten part 1, dealing with the israelites and judahites.

http://www.jwstudies.com/revolutions_part_1__israelite_judahite_salvations.pdf .

the url links to parts 2 and 3 are provided on its page 3.. i provide the complete bibliography at the end of part 3.. doug.

Doug Mason

Perry,

The person who that wrote 1 Corinthians - Paul - had never seen or heard Jesus. Likewise, the later people responsible for the rest of the NT never saw or heard Jesus. They worked from their imagination. They were not recording literal history as we would know it. They were writing religious tales for a religious purpose.

If I could help that gentleman in that picture, it is this -- in October 2016 I too had a pot belly, weighing in at 110.5 kilos. Within 6 months I had dropped 33 kilos and I have kept it off ever since. If he wants to know the secret, tell him to contact me and I will tell him what worked for me.

If he wants to believe in resurrection, I do not deny him that hope. If that's what works for him, he must keep it. Hope precedes belief, precedes doctrine.

Paul heard voices in his head, saw flashes of light that no one else could, received all of his Gospel from internal voices, claiming that he had communicated with a dead man. Paul's vivid imagination created new meaning for baptism, created the eucharist, discovered the words spoken at the "Last Supper" without receiving it from any human. Later writers followed Paul.

Christianity comes from Paul. Jesus did not write anything.

Doug

25

History of Salvations: Israelites and Judahites

by Doug Mason in

my material on the history of judaeo-christian salvations became unwieldy, so i divided it into 3 parts.. i have completely rewritten part 1, dealing with the israelites and judahites.

http://www.jwstudies.com/revolutions_part_1__israelite_judahite_salvations.pdf .

the url links to parts 2 and 3 are provided on its page 3.. i provide the complete bibliography at the end of part 3.. doug.

Doug Mason

Thank you Jaydee,

I have no distractions and at the age of 77 I need to keep my mind active and be able to use it for as long as possible. So in that, I am purely selfish.

I enjoy and thrill at the discovery of new ideas. Every page contains information I had not known and my mind is refreshed. Selfishness again.

I appreciate the discipline that writing imposes, forcing ideas to forge strong links and to expose loose thinking that should be discarded. And I think that the subject of Salvation is of universal interest.

Having drafted this material, my mind is now turning to a chapter (probably only one chapter?) on the evolution of Satan. I have other chapters sitting on the back burners of my mind, such as on Judaism (they became Jews after returning from the Babylonian captivity) and other chapters on the Rennaisance, the Enlightenment, and on soteriologies in these modern times. I want to write about these because I want to know.

Do I have enough days left?

Doug

25

History of Salvations: Israelites and Judahites

by Doug Mason in

my material on the history of judaeo-christian salvations became unwieldy, so i divided it into 3 parts.. i have completely rewritten part 1, dealing with the israelites and judahites.

http://www.jwstudies.com/revolutions_part_1__israelite_judahite_salvations.pdf .

the url links to parts 2 and 3 are provided on its page 3.. i provide the complete bibliography at the end of part 3.. doug.

Doug Mason

Perry,

I do not cover the death of Jesus (Yeshua/Joshua) in Part 1 as it covers the Israelites and Judahites, However, I do consider the views of the Jews, namely the writings of the first 150 years of the Christian calendar in my Part 2.

I see the questions you raise quite differently: Where did Paul get his ideas? As a member of the Diaspora, what gentile influences caused him to manufacture his models? (Paul is the earliest NT writer we have, apart from maybe Thomas.)

Why should anyone accept Paul's creative imaginings? (Ignoring, of course those writings that have incorrectly been attributed to him.)

No NT writer either saw or heard Jesus. We do not know who wrote the Gospels, so what were their motives?

The Johannine community, for example, wrote some 60 years later. They had been ostracised because of their High Christology.

I suggest that these are the areas of interest -- the creative imaginings.

They were not writing theology. They were writing religious stories. They were not writing literal histories. So ask why they thought like this. Remembering that they were fully convinced that it was all about to end soon with the direct divine intervention of God and the Coming of Jesus in glory. They were writing for their own times.

On top of all that, we need to understand and empathise with the culture of the times, particularly the times they were writing -- apart from Paul, that would be from 70 CE (Mark) to 150 CE (2 Peter).

Doug